[FCN Announcements] FCN barred from use of PayPal service

[public at lists.fcn.ca]

Dear naturists:

On December 16, 2007, the FCN received a message from PayPal that  
they had shut down access to our account because we violated their  
acceptable usage policy.  As part of their action, we cannot access  
the money that we accumulated in the account for 180 days, and they  
threaten to “fine” the FCN for unexplained reasons.

After a lengthy effort trying to communicate with the people who  
receive messages via aup at paypal.com, we learned that no matter what  
we did to assure them that we do not deal in pornography, sell  
obscene material or maintain a website for mature audiences, we were  
informed that we would not get a reversal in their decision.  PayPal  
has demanded that we remove all references to PayPal from our website  
and other places.  In the meantime, anyone who goes to our website  
gets a message that the FCN cannot accept payments via PayPal.

The FCN is carefully considering a public response to the arbitrary,  
and hurtful, treatment to which the FCN has been subjected.  After  
four years of using their service, we have not had one complaint from  
anyone who has subscribed to our magazine, Going Natural, bought  
single copies thereof, or paid for their attendance at our annual  
festival.  Despite the inferred recognition that the FCN does not  
violate its stated acceptable usage policy, PayPal finally stated  
PayPal will not allow naturists to sell their services or goods.

It goes without saying that you will not be able to use PayPal to  
continue your subscription to Going Natural.  There are two other  
ways, however.  You can download our form on our website,  
www.fcn.ca.  You can fax it in if you have VISA, MasterCard or AMEX.   
The phone number is 416-410-6833 (NUDE).  Otherwise, you can mail it  
to the FCN, P.O. Box 186, Station D, Toronto, Ontario M9A 4X2.

Anyone interested in reviewing Paypal's policy can view it at:   
http://tinyurl.com/yr44pm

We would also caution everyone from using Paypal. During our  
investigation, we've learned that when people use Paypal, they are  
often waiving many rights that normally apply to other financial  
institution. Paypal is NOT a bank and, as such, is not governed by  
the same rules.

Here is some information from: http://www.paypalsucks.com/



1. According to PayPal accepting their ToS (Terms of Service) in  
effect means you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection  
laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a  
chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal  
account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your  
account. Is this legal? We don't know. But it's how Paypal operates.  
See my credit card waiver page for more information.

2. Their customer service is horrible. They used to hide their  
telephone number, (intentionally - by their own admission) and only  
provided support via "form" emails:
"As for the customer service, Sollitto said they intentionally make  
the phone number very difficult to find in order to save costs."


This is confirmed in the book "PayPal Wars". If you have a problem,  
you are at their mercy! (And you will eventually have a problem.) The  
only reason their number can be found now is because they were forced  
to by law (EFTA Electronic Funds Transaction Act) due to complaints  
from users of this website. You can also click on our FAQs page. Just  
scroll down a bit, and you'll find their phone numbers, plus their  
toll free numbers as well, plus a huge list of unpublished PayPal  
phone numbers.

3. Their terms of service are not completely disclosed upon signup  
and some key "conditions" are not disclosed. They fail to mention  
their total lack of security to prevent your account from being  
compromised by phishing & spoof sites. That if your account is  
accessed by a criminal using one of these methods, PayPal will hold  
YOU monetarily & legally responsible! Also, no place do they openly  
tell potential members that their money is 100% at risk. That PayPal  
can, will, and has in the past, completely cleaned out customers'  
accounts, (including your checking or savings account) with no  
appeals process available. Instead they bury in the fine print of 37  
pages of their "Terms of Service" (ToS) where they disclose to you  
that PayPal can close your account for any reason what-so-ever, or no  
reason, and then you have to wait 180 days to get your money. Think  
that'll never happen? Think again. That's what everyone thinks till  
it happens to them.

4. If PayPal feels your actions are questionable, PayPal is the  
investigator, judge, jury and executioner. "Telling your side" of  
what happened, in most cases seems to be irrelevant. They also refuse  
to provide you with the details of their investigation and withhold  
documents they relied upon to make their decisions. Your only contact  
will be an email that says:

Thank you for contacting PayPal. We apologize for the delay in  
respondingto your service request.

After review, the decision has been made to keep your account locked.  
This decision cannot be appealed.

If you have any further questions, please reply to this email.

That will be the end of it as far as PayPal is concerned. You can  
email back, but you'll just get more of the same. Oh yea, and you'll  
have to wait 180 days to get your money.

5. If you are a bona fide, up-standing individual with hundreds of  
successful transactions, but someone pays you with a stolen credit  
card, your account (by PayPal's own admission) is immediately flagged  
as being "criminal behavior" and any money in that account is  
confiscated. If a customer "disputes" the charge, same thing happens.  
(See email above.) PayPal claims that they will fight chargebacks,  
but read this before you fall for that one.

6. Paypal's fees for NON-credit card funding are the same as for  
credit cards! This is the single biggest rippoff on their site. We  
understand Paypal charging a fee when you fund your account with a  
credit card. After all, they are being charged by Visa/Mastercard,  
etc. And we understand there is a lot of fraud with credit card  
funding. However, most of the money sent within the Paypal system no  
longer comes from credit card funding. However, money spent from  
PayPal account to PayPal account is subject to the exact same fees  
credit card purchases are! This money has been in the system for  
years and is "clean." That is, there are no fees at all to Paypal,  
and there is almost no fraud at all with this money, but Paypal  
charges the SAME fees to transactions with NON-credit card funds!  
Thus every transaction makes PayPal money, but it's nothing more than  
an entry in a computer database on their system. No money has  
actually moved, and there are no costs to Paypal. They are just  
skimming the gravy.


Other sites of interest:

http://www.screw-paypal.com/

http://www.paypalsucks.org/

http://www.nopaypal.com/








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